How did the bikes end up in here?
Initially not at all. We just put these up less than a month ago. But I ride all the time, and we do a lot of programming here, so it just became part of the program. Now we do a bike club every other Sunday called Tour the Fifth. There's a lot of bike clubs, but there's not a lot of Black-led bike clubs. Not a lot of people that look like me there. That's kind of been my thing in general with my career: creating what I want to see more of.
So this started as a clothing brand?
The parent brand is Adult Entertainment. It parallels anything I want to do. AE is bigger than myself; it's not an identity thing, it's an ecosystem. It started as a clothing brand when I was out in New York. My first three shops were retail. But we did a lot of parties, a lot of events. I used to do a lot of house parties growing up. The brand is an evolution of house parties. It just formalizes and becomes something like this.
What do you mean it's never been polished?
It's not a polished coffee shop. It's never been polished. And showing people that professionalism doesn't look one way. Especially as young Black and Brown individuals, that's a big part of just not headbutting the system every opportunity. Me personally, that's my thing. But at the same time, that's not for everybody. It is a matter of representation. It doesn't come in one way. It's not a binary of how you have to exist in order to create or push and have people support it.
Do you still party?
We still party. But partying is a form of activism. How many people have you seen speaking about people they don't interact with? I'm not an invisible owner. My presence is very evident. So partying now looks like: we have vinyl nights, a band called BPM. Friday we have the Kickback. Every other Thursday, Double Tongue, our poetry open mic, about 100 people. Every other Wednesday, comedy called Loose Lips. A book club called Between the Covers. A writing workshop called War Riding Horse Resistance. Bike club on Sunday. So it's still party. We still smoking. We still kicking it. Just different forms.
You said you never had a fight at your house parties. How?
I'm from Kansas City, Missouri. My range of friends is wide. I got homies that bang. I got homies that are worth millions. I got homies in tech. I got homies that don't know how to work a computer. Homies barely making rent. And they're all in one party. That's by offering perspective. Knowing me. But then it becomes the room and knowing who's going to be in that room, knowing that last time you had such a good time. And it compounds. It allows for these experiences to at least get a second look.
How did you find this place?
This space has been a coffee shop for years. First it was Black Bears, Black woman owner, around 2009. Then Coffee at the Point. That was vacant for about two and a half years. One of my partners bought the building, and the whole mission was to reactivate Five Points. This is the point of Five Points. A lot of significance. It needed to happen, and I was one of the few that could do justice in the space. I opened this one last year.
You got anxiety ordering coffee?
Everything in tandem. You gotta be cool to do the coolest things. I don't even love coffee. But everyone coming here is not just coming for coffee. That said, we can't drop the ball. One thing I noticed going to other coffee shops: I'm a very confident person, but I got anxiety ordering. I didn't know the difference between a cappuccino and a latte. And who am I asking without sounding like an idiot? Baristas and bartenders are parallel in how they expect you to already know. So if I'm going through that with the confidence I have, someone without that confidence is not having a great time. So we limited the options. Made it easier.
Walk me through the menu.
The first five are what you see at every other cafe: drips, lattes, espresso, flat white, Americano. If that's your thing, we got that. If you're more like me, we have the caramel latte, but we make the caramel in house for about four hours. Cookies and cream, our version of a mocha, also house-made. The Blacker the Berry, our BlackBerry matcha. This space used to be called Black Bears, so that's our nod to the lineage. That one only comes iced. Then we add seasonal drinks. Sweet potato chai, horchata hot chocolate, caramel apple latte. Right now we're doing a tropical thing with maracuya lemonade. About to do a frozen matcha. When you come here, there's a reason you come here specifically.
You don't have vanilla. Do people ask?
Every single day. And I tell them, I think you're way cooler than that. Then I tell them about the menu, and they'll pick something they actually want to try. We have a local honey too, just in case. That's the easiest transition. We're not trying to completely take it away. There's just no reason for us to have vanilla. It's symbolic.
How do you decide what's worth keeping on the menu?
I'm here every day. I hear what people are ordering. I'm looking at their faces. That's a big reason we don't have a ton of options. People don't know what they want. They just want it to be good. And they're willing to explore if you're willing to take them there. Right now we're workshopping cereal milk lattes. The Cinnamon Toast Crunch one worked. The Captain Crunch one didn't taste great after adding espresso. The sweet potato chai, people asked for it every single day, which is why we're about to bring it back. The caramel apple, people were still going to the caramel. So you just experiment.
How's the revitalization of Five Points going?
It's been beautiful. We're not the only ones, but us being in the ring for what we do has been part of it. Before we opened, if you walked this corridor in the daytime, it was very empty. We directly wanted to affect that. We wanted there to be a reason for people to congregate during the day, not just come for dinner at 7pm and leave. On any regular sunny day, there's easily another 5, 10 people just out here because of this space. You don't have to purchase anything to be here. There's no buy-in to be part of the community.
When's the last time you took a real day off?
Technically I was just in Kansas City for my mom's birthday. But that wasn't really a day off. An actual day off where I'm in town and just not here? About a month and a half ago. And it was a slow day. I was coming in later anyway. Before that, from when we opened in June through the end of the year, I was here every single day.
You said you don't trust anyone to do it the way you'd do it. What does that look like day to day?
I don't trust anyone enough to do what I do the way I'd do it. A lot of it is game-time decisions. Right before you came in, I bought that rack. I got the soldier delivered. My man would do it, but it might not be the first thing he does. That rack doesn't have the clothes spread out. I haven't wiped these tables. Those visual cues, I can't stand them. But he does a lot on the back end that I don't do. So it's a good balance of checking each other.
You didn't go to school for this?
Transparently, I didn't go to school for this. Everything I'm doing is self-taught. Every single day. There's not a lot of people that look like me doing this at this level. What should I worry about? How should I feel about this? All that is bumping around. I appreciate it in the sense that I'm going to do it my way regardless. But part of that is learning what systems to put in place.
Are there cafe trends you like or dislike?
My phone knows I own a coffee shop. I get targeted with mad coffee content. I'm always looking to improve. Great artists steal. I'm always trying to see what our version of something could be. Going into summer, we're doing frozen matcha. I haven't seen a lot of that. I have this vision of you walking in and seeing something very vibrant, green, swirling, and being like, I need that. But yeah, it's more about flavor profiles than trends.